Pre-Payment

[Guy Furman]

Hey All, my first post here. (sorry if there any spelling mistakes )

So, i wanted to talk about a certain issue called PRE-PAYMENT.
As an affiliate manager i talk to a lot of affiliates during my day, after we discuss about traffic capabilities, payouts and expectation we get to the payment method.

most (90%) of affiliates will tell you they need PRE-PAYMENT as its there policy.
and ask you to transfer funds to a certain account and they promise you will see results or you will get your money back. ( they claim that they been scammed before, well .... we all did.)

now, when i try to offer a different approach as immediate payment , that means that as soon as there a conversion i will transfer the money, that can serve both parties,
Affiliate side- if he dont receive his payment he can stop the campaign and be done with it.
Affiliate manager side- if all arrives good ill be happy to pay and continue this relationship (we all in this business to make money).
for now i started working with a few affiliates this way and we continue our relationship. and moved to NET terms.

So my question is what you the Affiliates think and also to my fellow Affiliate managers what are you doing and how you create relationships.

Thanks in advance

 

[Guy Furman]

no thoughts ? any one?

 

[awesomesauce]

90% of "affiliates" are scammers.

P.S. I answered you on WF

 

[FranceAlexander]

Hey All, my first post here. (sorry if there any spelling mistakes )

So, i wanted to talk about a certain issue called PER-PAYMENT.
As an affiliate manager i talk to a lot of affiliates during my day, after we discuss about traffic capabilities, payouts and expectation we get to the payment method.

most (90%) of affiliates will tell you they need PER-PAYMENT as its there policy.
and ask you to transfer funds to a certain account and they promise you will see results or you will get your money back. ( they claim that they been scammed before, well .... we all did.)

now, when i try to offer a different approach as immediate payment , that means that as soon as there a conversion i will transfer the money, that can serve both parties,
Affiliate side- if he dont receive his payment he can stop the campaign and be done with it.
Affiliate manager side- if all arrives good ill be happy to pay and continue this relationship (we all in this business to make money).
for now i started working with a few affiliates this way and we continue our relationship. and moved to NET terms.

So my question is what you the Affiliates think and also to my fellow Affiliate managers what are you doing and how you create relationships.

Thanks in advance

Hey hey! Im an affiliate manager too. And I know the struggle in regards to this same day to day routine. Talking to 200 people and end up talking to 199 who wants pre-payment and that one pub that agrees on my terms. But at some point I kinda understand. I think these pubs, are either too cheap to invest their budget on a campaign they're not sure is going to get a good ROI, they dont have budget to pay for tools to run the offers or they're just really scammers.

 

[Guy Furman]

Hey hey! Im an affiliate manager too. And I know the struggle in regards to this same day to day routine. Talking to 200 people and end up talking to 199 who wants pre-payment and that one pub that agrees on my terms. But at some point I kinda understand. I think these pubs, are either too cheap to invest their budget on a campaign they're not sure is going to get a good ROI, they dont have budget to pay for tools to run the offers or they're just really scammers.

it may be, but all of them guarantee you will see results, so what you suggest we keep struggling?

 

[Graybeard]

PER means for some action PRE means Before or In Advance.
PREPAYMENT is cash up front --and NOT 10day, 30day net terms or the like that's PER some terms.

In the real business word: you do things on terms when the other party is considered reliable. Has assets, has been in business a number of years, etc.

Seems to me that you are being told to *put your money on the table or go away* Why is that?

 

[Guy Furman]

PER means for some action PRE means Before or In Advance.
PREPAYMENT is cash up front --and NOT 10day, 30day net terms or the like that's PER some terms.

In the real business word: you do things on terms when the other party is considered reliable. Has assets, has been in business a number of years, etc.

Seems to me that you are being told to *put your money on the table or go away* Why is that?

Hey, the post is talking about PRE PAYMENT.
why is that? I think there are a lot off scammers in this business and people are tired or they trying to scam you.
as I mentioned in the post i offer different options for payments.

 

[Guy Furman]

I have been scammed by more than one affiliate program in my days.
Who are you? Where do you bank? Where are you incorporated.

You are missing the point -- you are not trusted. That's what they may be telling you. You have a right to qualify those you want to do business with also.

Traffic is not free. You need to qualify to get it.
If you expect me to invest my money, efforts and traffic generated for your company's business I need to know I have a reasonable expectation of a good return on my investment. I am not taking about some pipe-dream percentage. I have no idea who you are or where you are.

You are not even registered as a resource Why is that -- you represent an affiliate network?
Why don't you want to carry your flag (to quote the colloquial)?

to be honest, affiliates can also be scammers and I can pay prepayment and they can disappear. so nobody is a saint.
the reason im not registered as a source or a vendor is bureaucracy, so as soon as that will done i will. belive me you can even add to Instagram

 

[Graybeard]

I have been scammed by more than one affiliate program in my days.
Who are you? Where do you bank? Where are you incorporated.

You are missing the point -- you are not trusted. That's what they may be telling you. You have a right to qualify those you want to do business with also.

Traffic is not free. You need to qualify to get it.
If you expect me to invest my money, efforts and traffic generated for your company's business I need to know I have a reasonable expectation of a good return on my investment. I am not taking about some pipe-dream percentage. I have no idea who you are or where you are.

You are not even registered as a resource Why is that -- you represent an affiliate network?
Why don't you want to carry your flag (to quote the colloquial)?

 

[Victor/Net Media Mobile]

As a direct advertiser i frequently face pre-payment requests from CPA networks, single affilaites, media buyers and etc. I would say 70% of my new leads request so. I totaly understand their concern, they afraid to be scammed, not paid and etc.

But at the same time i also don`t wanna send money to nowhere, especially if it`s not a company but a single person. Everyone promises top quality traffic and etc, but you can never know what you might get in return, some shitty no-converting traffic, pure fraud or ghosting at all.

So if question of pre-payment appears, i suggest some sort of middle ground: signing the IO + i am providing a couple of credit references.

If that`s not enought, unfortunetly we can`t proceed.

But it`s just my approach.

 

[Victor/Net Media Mobile]

I agree with you prepaying affiliates is a bad idea.
But are you worthy for professional affiliates to invest their money and resources in?
Sword cuts both ways.

80% of people have good intentions but the devil is in the details.

@Victor/Net Media Mobile you are talking about buying ads or media.
You have to evaluate that media placement and probably pay up front if you want it. Having bought many ads myself in the past having spent a lot and got back damn little many times -- I am sympathetic to your gripe. Sometimes, I overestimated an audience I thought I knew personally very well -- and lost most of the ad money spent. Part of the game unfortunately.

Some of the ad networks I have bought some traffic from have been pathetic. I know the traffic was bad and had to just write off what was spent -- fortunately it was hundreds not thousands. That doesn't mean I will stop -- but I'll try to avoid the same traps.

For sure if you want to buy some banner on the website, or some media placment you have to pay upfornt, since you already know where it will be hosted or whatever , but I guess Guy Furman was talking about regular CPA peformance (the way most affilaites work with CPA networks, advertisers and etc) , so i shared my view on it.

But again, if you are top class affilaite that is able to generate dozens of sales with top quality traffic, you can also share some CR so people would know whom do the prepay and what results they will get. Guess it will be fair

 

[T J Tutor]

I think these pubs, are either too cheap to invest their budget on a campaign they're not sure is going to get a good ROI, they dont have budget to pay for tools to run the offers or they're just really scammers.

EXACTLY!

Anyone that requires payment up front to run campaigns for your offers has no accelerated experience with responsible and/or confident campaigns.

IMHO: DON'T PAY PUBS UPFRONT!

 

[Graybeard]

I agree with you prepaying affiliates is a bad idea.
But are you worthy for professional affiliates to invest their money and resources in?
Sword cuts both ways.

80% of people have good intentions but the devil is in the details.

@Victor/Net Media Mobile you are talking about buying ads or media.
You have to evaluate that media placement and probably pay up front if you want it. Having bought many ads myself in the past having spent a lot and got back damn little many times -- I am sympathetic to your gripe. Sometimes, I overestimated an audience I thought I knew personally very well -- and lost most of the ad money spent. Part of the game unfortunately.

Some of the ad networks I have bought some traffic from have been pathetic. I know the traffic was bad and had to just write off what was spent -- fortunately it was hundreds not thousands. That doesn't mean I will stop -- but I'll try to avoid the same traps.

 

[T J Tutor]

I have been scammed by more than one affiliate program in my days.
Who are you? Where do you bank? Where are you incorporated.

Loads of unexperienced people opening up affiliate networks over the recent years. Anyone can do it, but most have no clue how to properly manage an affiliate business, no idea how to properly recruit reliable pubs and advertisers, and the result is more than 90% of new aff networks die within a year or two.

All sides of the equation need to do due diligence. Everyone needs to "earn their stripes"!

 

[T J Tutor]

the reason im not registered as a source or a vendor is bureaucracy

If you are speaking to our requirements, this is not bureaucracy! We "vet" the businesses registering for our resource area in an attempt to weed out the very scammers and inexperienced businesses you all are addressing in this thread.

We do our due diligence to protect our members. That is not a form of bureaucracy, it is management and due diligence.

bureaucracy:
A bureaucracy is an organization made up of many departments and divisions that are administered by lots of people. ... Bureaucracy has a bad reputation because it has come to mean an organization or government that is chin-deep in red tape and unnecessary procedures.

 

[T J Tutor]

As a direct advertiser i frequently face pre-payment requests from CPA networks, single affilaites, media buyers and etc. I would say 70% of my new leads request so. I totaly understand their concern, they afraid to be scammed, not paid and etc.

The true answer to resolve all of this is 3rd party escrow, but it is not likely the industry will be quick to adapt to this. That said, look at the domain sales and auction business. They have been early adopters of the escrow implementation. It will work and for very tiny fees.

 

[Graybeard]

I guess if an affiliate wanted pre-payment he/she would have to offer some proof of past performance for it even to be considered. I think this type of agreement would be very rare.
When I ran affiliate programs in the past I was usually approached about special content or possibly accelerated payment terms.

Accelerated payments were negotiable after a reasonable period of performance. Credit card sales are not final for at least 90 days and claims for chargebacks can occur for a few more months. I have seen chargebacks in a few cases of over $10,000 in the past --fraud. That is very rare in that amount but that happened a few years. One from China and one from India that I recall. Shit happens when you do 300-400 sales per day

The first affiliate program/or network (and upstream vendors) that starts to use a blockchain that cannot be tampered with will get my attention.

 

[T J Tutor]

if you want to buy some banner on the website, or some media placment you have to pay upfornt

Of course, this is an immediate product transaction. A completely different animal from the OP's references.

 

[T J Tutor]

Some of the ad networks I have bought some traffic from have been pathetic.

Here is where we can find an abundance of scams. The traffic industry has been a real battle for everyone. It takes great skill to build the reliable and dependable traffic sources and it takes skills to know how to filter the traffic we buy from them.

 

[T J Tutor]

The first affiliate program/or network (and upstream vendors) that starts to use a blockchain that cannot be tampered with will get my attention.

I have run across two of them recently. I'll have to go through my notes to find them. They have been on my "to do's".

 

[T J Tutor]

Blockchain Aff Networks and Support Platforms:
Attrace
AffiliateCoin
TradeDoubler

More are coming.

 

[Guy Furman]

@T J Tutor I didn't mean bureaucracy as it is, its just a slang of mine.
and I respect the way you protected the forum members !!.

 

[sjTN]

no thoughts ? any one?

Sadly this has been our experience also with affiliates (FX/CFD niche). Pre paid (a significant amount not to be sweated at) and was promised high end clients...yet all amounts coming in where exactly the same $. And I mean to the dollar...and of course a fraction of the CPA.

Went to a different company, same. Next one, same. and so on...