RON, when to cut target sites

[goodoboy]

Hello,

I am performing run of network on a $0.20 pay out offer.

I have read that to cut target site if no conversions after spending 3x the payout. I understand this.

When performing RON on a campaign and I have conversions that i have spent 3x the payout on a target sites, do I still cut it? Let's say the ROI for this site is like -54%, CTR > 40%, profit -$3

here is some example
Screenshot by Lightshot
Screenshot by Lightshot
Screenshot by Lightshot

My opinion is yes, cut it because the goal of RON is to find profitable sites, correct?

Thank you

 

[captain47]

For a 0.20$ payout offer after a loss of $3, I would cut that target. Make a note of the targets that are converting but at a loss.

At a later stage, when you are testing a new lander / creative, you could use these targets too and test them to see if they respond differently.

 

[goodoboy]

For a 0.20$ payout offer after a loss of $3, I would cut that target. Make a note of the targets that are converting but at a loss.

At a later stage, when you are testing a new lander / creative, you could use these targets too and test them to see if they respond differently.

Thank you very much captain47 for responding.

Very good point you make. I have attach some examples in my first post for review to understand my question.

I am actually running RON and separate whitelist campaign targeting positive ROI

 

[javierin]

Are you buying traffic all day?

 

[goodoboy]

Are you buying traffic all day?

Thank you javierin for reply,

Yes, I am buying 24 hours per day for RON. I want to do this for one week, then review the data to analyze better targeting later.

 

[javierin]

Thank you javierin for reply,

Yes, I am buying 24 hours per day for RON. I want to do this for one week, then review the data to analyze better targeting later.

I suggest you that look at the conversion report hourly, some offers dont convert well at particular hours, if it is the situation, you will see how many targets changes from unprofitables to profitables.

 

[goodoboy]

I suggest you that look at the conversion report hourly, some offers dont convert well at particular hours, if it is the situation, you will see how many targets changes from unprofitables to profitables.

Thank you very much javierin,

Just to make sure I understand you.
Are you suggesting show the hourly conversion report for the entire campaign, so I can see when the entire campaign (all target sites) conversion data?

Thank you

 

[javierin]

Yes, I know, my english is awful, I'm going to try explain me better.

I think you are using voluum for tracking, inside the campaing there is an option to filter by hours of the day, and you will see, the dates of the 24 hours of the day, so no you have the data, you must interpret it.

For example, you are promoting a game, Clash of clans, and people at 4 am watch your ad, they dont want to play to clash of clash, they are just trying to jerking off... so at your data you will see that you have like 1k or 2k of impresions at that hour of the day, but no conversions, so if you dont have conversions at that our of the day, do not waster your money.

NOW, be smart if 2pm to 3pm is profitable, and 3pm to 4pm is unprofitable, it's not because the time, its because you are going RON, but if you see that from 1am to 7am is unprofitable, it is a patron!

And please @goodoboy pm me your skype, I want to networking with people that are doing the same things that me, we can learn from ours mistakes

 

[goodoboy]

Yes, I know, my english is awful, I'm going to try explain me better.

I think you are using voluum for tracking, inside the campaing there is an option to filter by hours of the day, and you will see, the dates of the 24 hours of the day, so no you have the data, you must interpret it.

For example, you are promoting a game, Clash of clans, and people at 4 am watch your ad, they dont want to play to clash of clash, they are just trying to jerking off... so at your data you will see that you have like 1k or 2k of impresions at that hour of the day, but no conversions, so if you dont have conversions at that our of the day, do not waster your money.

NOW, be smart if 2pm to 3pm is profitable, and 3pm to 4pm is unprofitable, it's not because the time, its because you are going RON, but if you see that from 1am to 7am is unprofitable, it is a patron!

And please @goodoboy pm me your skype, I want to networking with people that are doing the same things that me, we can learn from ours mistakes

Thank you so much.

I will skype you and keep this thread open for others til I get conclusion.

Here is my problem, I have RON and I understand to remove target if 3x payout show 0 conversions.

However, what if 3x payout and I have conversions and negative ROI, do I remove?

Thank you

 

[aharvey101]

I always thought, day parting was the last thing you optimize. But firstly, you need more data but I wouldn't be cutting anything until it reaches 5k views. There is a thing in data analysis called statistical significance and basically there is an equation that works out if there is enough data for you to make a decision. 800 impressions is not enough data, if targets get to 5k and are still not profiting, check your day parting then and perhaps start optimising that.

 

[goodoboy]

I always thought, day parting was the last thing you optimize. But firstly, you need more data but I wouldn't be cutting anything until it reaches 5k views. There is a thing in data analysis called statistical significance and basically there is an equation that works out if there is enough data for you to make a decision. 800 impressions is not enough data, if targets get to 5k and are still not profiting, check your day parting then and perhaps start optimising that.

Thank you aharvey101 for replying.

I am running 24 hours a day for now. I have seen posted on this forum that 3-4x the payout and no conversion then target gets cut.

5000 visitors before making decision would exceed alot of budget if running RON. IMO

 

[captain47]

I always thought, day parting was the last thing you optimize. But firstly, you need more data but I wouldn't be cutting anything until it reaches 5k views. There is a thing in data analysis called statistical significance and basically there is an equation that works out if there is enough data for you to make a decision. 800 impressions is not enough data, if targets get to 5k and are still not profiting, check your day parting then and perhaps start optimising that.

I once did a calculation on statistical significance, 2500 is the number at which a data becomes relevant. But of course the more the better.

Thank you aharvey101 for replying.

I am running 24 hours a day for now. I have seen posted on this forum that 3-4x the payout and no conversion then target gets cut.

5000 visitors before making decision would exceed alot of budget if running RON. IMO

But like he said, 5000 is a lot, esp. if you are on a tight budget like most people. Even 2500 is a lot.

The trick is to cut at 800 or so, but to keep track of what you are cutting. Make the campaign profitable first.

The problem with all the cutting is that, your volume goes down considerably. By the time you are profitable, you will end up spending 10$ a day and make say 14$ back. Nice ROI, but we are not doing this shit to make 4$ a day.

When you are profitable and know what is working, open up a couple of placements that you "blocked" in the past and see how it is doing.

Thank you so much.

I will skype you and keep this thread open for others til I get conclusion.

Here is my problem, I have RON and I understand to remove target if 3x payout show 0 conversions.

However, what if 3x payout and I have conversions and negative ROI, do I remove?

Thank you

I already answered this question, I guess you are looking for answers from other people too.

- If there are over 1000 impressions and only one conversion, cut it.
- If there are over 1000 impressions and ROI <-50% (say -75%), cut it for now and make a record of the placement so that you can open it up later.
- If there are over 1000 impressions and there is more than 3 conversions and a ROI greater than -50% (say -40%), keep it going for some more time.
- If there are over 5000 impressions are still at -ve ROI, cut it and make a note of the placement.

All of this is after assuming that you are constantly testing with new landers, angles and ads. If you keep running the same campaign for a long time, its not magically turn into a +ve ROI over night.

Hope that helps.

 

[aharvey101]

I would have to agree with you there @captain47 . You have explained it better than I could too. Looks like you have some positive ROI targets so I be running those in a separate campaign when the data is significant (2,500) and split testing landers. How long have you found that it takes for these kinds of ads to suffer banner blindness? from campaigns that I have run on the web, it has taken a while. What is it like for mobile?

 

[goodoboy]

I once did a calculation on statistical significance, 2500 is the number at which a data becomes relevant. But of course the more the better.



But like he said, 5000 is a lot, esp. if you are on a tight budget like most people. Even 2500 is a lot.

The trick is to cut at 800 or so, but to keep track of what you are cutting. Make the campaign profitable first.

The problem with all the cutting is that, your volume goes down considerably. By the time you are profitable, you will end up spending 10$ a day and make say 14$ back. Nice ROI, but we are not doing this shit to make 4$ a day.

When you are profitable and know what is working, open up a couple of placements that you "blocked" in the past and see how it is doing.



I already answered this question, I guess you are looking for answers from other people too.

- If there are over 1000 impressions and only one conversion, cut it.
- If there are over 1000 impressions and ROI <-50% (say -75%), cut it for now and make a record of the placement so that you can open it up later.
- If there are over 1000 impressions and there is more than 3 conversions and a ROI greater than -50% (say -40%), keep it going for some more time.
- If there are over 5000 impressions are still at -ve ROI, cut it and make a note of the placement.

All of this is after assuming that you are constantly testing with new landers, angles and ads. If you keep running the same campaign for a long time, its not magically turn into a +ve ROI over night.

Hope that helps.

Thank you alot captain47,

Yes, what you wrote answers my question.

Questions:

1. Just to make sure I understand better, perform cutting after some optimizing to see if targets improve? This makes sense cause we don't want to cut (if it meets criteria above) the target after the first or second day of testing without testing new landers, angles, ads, etc to make campaign profitable. Sort of like a new store, we don't want to close the store after first day open, and no customers..change things around. Is my understanding correct to try to make campaign profitable before cutting/blacklist targets? Because I have some targets that met the criteria after 1st day of RON.

Thank you for help.

 

[goodoboy]

I would have to agree with you there @captain47 . You have explained it better than I could too. Looks like you have some positive ROI targets so I be running those in a separate campaign when the data is significant (2,500) and split testing landers. How long have you found that it takes for these kinds of ads to suffer banner blindness? from campaigns that I have run on the web, it has taken a while. What is it like for mobile?

Thank you aharvey101,

Yes, I am learning day by day. I have not thought about banner blindness, but I put it on my list to consider or test or research later.

Thank you

 

[captain47]

Thank you alot captain47,

Yes, what you wrote answers my question.

Questions:

1. Just to make sure I understand better, perform cutting after some optimizing to see if targets improve? This makes sense cause we don't want to cut (if it meets criteria above) the target after the first or second day of testing without testing new landers, angles, ads, etc to make campaign profitable. Sort of like a new store, we don't want to close the store after first day open, and no customers..change things around. Is my understanding correct to try to make campaign profitable before cutting/blacklist targets? Because I have some targets that met the criteria after 1st day of RON.

Thank you for help.

Cutting after Day 1 is fine. You can always come back to it later.

 

[goodoboy]

Cutting after Day 1 is fine. You can always come back to it later.

Thank you captain47, I appreciate the help