Thanks Putin!
- Thread starter Graybeard
- Start date
Really important to stick to the facts
--> I got 100% sympathy for innocent victims
& anybody doing war crimes should be prosecuted
but a story always has 2 sides (ALL stories)
not just the media wants you to believe
and I refuse to hate Russia or Russians just because the media/gov says so
so when I look at this map
I understand WHY Russia is nervous
--> would you be nervous
--> with the world's biggest army
--> sitting on your doorstep? @Graybeard
this is the strategic military problem for Russia in terms of Ukraine
but this doesnt excuse invasion, murder, destruction, rape, torture, theft
and Ukraine is soverign state can join what it wants
all Im trying to do is understand Russias view point
Saying somebody is paranoia or evil is a value judgement
--> does not get to the CAUSES of the problems
Graybeard
Well-Known Member
That makes no sense and is paranoid rational.
Russia has invaded Hungary, former Czechoslovakia and now Ukraine.
NATO is there for a reason.
Putin has created his own bad situation.
Putin invaded and occupied Crimea.
Crimea has been disputed territory from then times of Ancient Greece and the Roman Empire.
Putin's invasion just makes North Korea and Iran feel more justified in developing nuclear weapons --so no one can threaten them with a nuclear attack without their own counter-attack. If there was no Budapest Accord --the Ukrainians might be in possession of nuclear ballistic missiles. Would that make Europe and the world a safer place?
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"speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far." --T.R.Roosevelt
Russia has invaded Hungary, former Czechoslovakia and now Ukraine.
NATO is there for a reason.
Putin has created his own bad situation.
Putin invaded and occupied Crimea.
Crimea has been disputed territory from then times of Ancient Greece and the Roman Empire.
Putin's invasion just makes North Korea and Iran feel more justified in developing nuclear weapons --so no one can threaten them with a nuclear attack without their own counter-attack. If there was no Budapest Accord --the Ukrainians might be in possession of nuclear ballistic missiles. Would that make Europe and the world a safer place?
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В Мариуполе точным ударом уничтожен американский наёмник
В Мариуполе ликвидирован американский наёмник
Contrary to Russian 'Propaganda' Video, Cesar Quintana Says He's Alive
More threats
"speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far." --T.R.Roosevelt
thats not my point
all war crimes are evil
the perpetrators should be prosecuted
my point is that global politics are complex
& to truly understand a situation
you must listen to both/all sides
should Russian leave Ukraine now?
-- yes of course
should war criminals be prosecuted?
--> yes of course
but after all this has finished
Russia will still be the largest country in the world
with a considerable global position
so we must keeping listening to the Russians
& not just isolate them forever
thats my only point @Graybeard @T J Tutor
Canceling nations forever doesnt work
remember Russia have many other big allies
North Korea & Iran & China
not to mention Armenia & Belarus & Kazakhstan & Kyrgyzstan & Tajikistan & Syria
there is no military solution apart from WW3
it must be found with dialogue
Graybeard
Well-Known Member
I hate to be an absolutist however treaty violators must be punished. Making a new deal with someone that broke their treaty promises once will not work the second time.
Truth is 'we', the conquerors of the new world, behaved like Putin and got away with it ... as time goes on history just repeats itself.
So true, but those that live today are not responsible for the past, we are responsible for the future and we all need to be harbingers of fellowship that creates and maintains kindness, generosity, well being, truth, honest, integrity, etc.
Those that have preceded us for ions were ruthless conquerors' and it was inappropriate, destructive, and of no benefit to humanity or our planet in any way.
Well now, there are exceptions to this. For example, a man reveals a gun, shoots a 2 year old in the head. Do we need to have a discussion with the man before concluding he is a murderer? I think not!
I do get your point, however, at the moment Putin is in complete control of a population, complete control of the countries military, and in complete control of assassination squads. There is no representation of the "people" with which to have discussions. Until the people of Russia have true representatives presenting Russia on the world stage, there is no way to have discussions with them.
Only by borders, their economy is smaller than Italy. If they had no nukes, Putin would be over thrown in a heart beat!
They are not the largest by population in any way. They rank 9th.
View attachment 24283
In most circumstances this is true, however, if a person is on a subway killing everything in their path, killing the shooter is the only way to peace.
Putin isn't just killing foreign populations, he executes his own people. Murderers of this nature must be murdered themselves. Putin needs to be eliminated, assassinated, or incarcerated.
Graybeard
Well-Known Member
Stalin was a mass murderer but Stalin was the Allies mass murder who could challenge Hitler on the eastern front.
Ukraine is NATO's challenger today on the eastern front with Russia.
The Ukrainians are acting with valor and honor today --so did Stalin during WW2 --towards a common goal at the time ...
This is a war for territorial gain by the by Putin's vision of the New Russian Empire -- plain and simple.
Ukraine is NATO's challenger today on the eastern front with Russia.
The Ukrainians are acting with valor and honor today --so did Stalin during WW2 --towards a common goal at the time ...
This is a war for territorial gain by the by Putin's vision of the New Russian Empire -- plain and simple.
I mean by land mass
Russia is almost double Canada or China or USA or Brazil or Australia
Largest Countries in the World by Area - Worldometer
www.worldometers.info
I am in no way defending Russia's attrocities in Ukraine
just saying we should keep the door open to keep talking
cos however nuts Putin is
he does have nukes
& I would like this world to continue
beyong 2022
albeit until the next great flood
Graybeard
Well-Known Member
Russian military commander Rustam Minnekaev now says>>>
“One of the tasks of the Russian army is to establish full control over the Donbas and southern Ukraine. This will provide a land corridor to the Crimea, as well as influence the vital objects of the Ukrainian economy,” Minnekaev said Friday at a meeting with the Union of Defense Industries, as reported by the Russian state-owned Interfax. “Control over the south of Ukraine is another way out to Transnistria, where there are also facts of oppression of the Russian-speaking population.” Transnistria is a separatist region of Moldova that has so far not been officially involved in the war despite hosting a Russian military base since the 1990s.
The general’s words suggest that Moldova’s sovereign borders would also come under threat from further Russian expansion. Phony efforts to protect Russian-speaking peoples have often foreshadowed Putin’s imperial invasions.<<<
www.thedailybeast.com
/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/IQQGVXURDBNJBLNWY7MUB3QN3U.jpg)
www.reuters.com
same shit new day ...
“One of the tasks of the Russian army is to establish full control over the Donbas and southern Ukraine. This will provide a land corridor to the Crimea, as well as influence the vital objects of the Ukrainian economy,” Minnekaev said Friday at a meeting with the Union of Defense Industries, as reported by the Russian state-owned Interfax. “Control over the south of Ukraine is another way out to Transnistria, where there are also facts of oppression of the Russian-speaking population.” Transnistria is a separatist region of Moldova that has so far not been officially involved in the war despite hosting a Russian military base since the 1990s.
The general’s words suggest that Moldova’s sovereign borders would also come under threat from further Russian expansion. Phony efforts to protect Russian-speaking peoples have often foreshadowed Putin’s imperial invasions.<<<
Russian General Lets Slip Secret Plan to Invade New Country
The Russian military now says the official plan is to create a land corridor all the way along Ukraine’s coast to Moldova, where another border is under threat.
Russia says it plans full control of Donbas and southern Ukraine; Moldova protests
Russia plans to take full control of Donbas and southern Ukraine during the second phase of what it calls its special military operation, the deputy commander of Russia's central military district said on Friday, Russian news agencies reported.
www.reuters.com
Graybeard
Well-Known Member
This has cost too many lives and let's not even discuss the cost to the world economy.
I just read this morning that they have discovered a second mass grave in Mariupol
>>>"Putin is destroying Ukrainians. He has already killed tens of thousands of civilians in Mariupol," the post quoted Boychenko as saying. "This requires a strong reaction from the entire civilized world. Anything needs to stop the genocide."
Ukrainian fighters have refused to lay down their arms and submit to the Russian war machine since the Kremlin began its campaign in late February. The fight is ongoing, but now the city is all but under the control of the Russians.
Ukrainian soldiers and citizens are holed up in a steel mill, but Russian President Vladimir Putin has ordered troops not to storm the facility. Despite the holdout, Putin is claiming victory in the port city. <<< Another possible mass grave with as many as 9,000 bodies is found near Mariupol
About face --new Russian plan!
>>>
KYIV/MARIUPOL, Ukraine, April 23 (Reuters) - Russia resumed its assault on the last Ukrainian defenders holed up in a giant steel works in Mariupol, a Ukrainian official said on Saturday, days after Moscow declared victory in the southern port city and said its forces did not need to take the factory.
Russian forces were hitting the Azovstal complex with air strikes and trying to storm it, presidential adviser Oleksiy Arestovych said, adding "the enemy is trying to strangle the final resistance of Mariupol's defenders".<<< Russia renews assault on Mariupol, intensifies Luhansk bombardment, Ukraine says
Every day ...
I just read this morning that they have discovered a second mass grave in Mariupol
>>>"Putin is destroying Ukrainians. He has already killed tens of thousands of civilians in Mariupol," the post quoted Boychenko as saying. "This requires a strong reaction from the entire civilized world. Anything needs to stop the genocide."
Ukrainian fighters have refused to lay down their arms and submit to the Russian war machine since the Kremlin began its campaign in late February. The fight is ongoing, but now the city is all but under the control of the Russians.
Ukrainian soldiers and citizens are holed up in a steel mill, but Russian President Vladimir Putin has ordered troops not to storm the facility. Despite the holdout, Putin is claiming victory in the port city. <<< Another possible mass grave with as many as 9,000 bodies is found near Mariupol
About face --new Russian plan!
>>>
KYIV/MARIUPOL, Ukraine, April 23 (Reuters) - Russia resumed its assault on the last Ukrainian defenders holed up in a giant steel works in Mariupol, a Ukrainian official said on Saturday, days after Moscow declared victory in the southern port city and said its forces did not need to take the factory.
Russian forces were hitting the Azovstal complex with air strikes and trying to storm it, presidential adviser Oleksiy Arestovych said, adding "the enemy is trying to strangle the final resistance of Mariupol's defenders".<<< Russia renews assault on Mariupol, intensifies Luhansk bombardment, Ukraine says
Every day ...
Graybeard
Well-Known Member
We need to get the jump on Putin and he's dead before he can order a nuclear strike --all the time having plausible deniability (or a patsy fall-guy) as to the 'special operation'
