Todays Rant... Newbies need to read this!

[GriD]

Apologies for this Quick rant here but I want to release some steam and I especially want other newbies to understand what they are up against, don’t take anything personal, this is business …
As yet another Affiliate network lost me a day…
I wonder if I even will be able to start another follow along this month lol.
The fights a newbie has to go through are many... Currently I am even struggling seeking out the tools...
Traffic source is chosen... Push...
Tracker is chosen... BeMob...
Vertical any of the lower budget (SOI etc.) ones...
Getting to talk to an AM that takes you serious is a game at the next level…
It seems like they just want to see numbers.. They're giving me a chicken and egg complex…
As I feel it is the AM I can not hold the network itself accountable and who am I to complain to the network about anything? (again the chicken and the egg…)
Some throw a series of offers at you, even some pre-approved…
Ask them anything about the offers, even simple stuff (like an example creative, landing page, statistics, ...) and they don't even take the time to answer, not even negatively (and being ignored by someone is a clear message to me, why did this network accept my application in the first place?)…
Some respond vaguely when asked if a specific offer suits a specific traffic source just saying 'yes that offer could be an idea, but you also might look at sweepstakes and dating'… (= they don't take time to read your question)
As if giving advice or looking up what you asked is too much trouble…
The reason for my rant today...
I hardly ever let my feelings mix with business but this one managed to give me false hope… Another AM chats with you a whole day on skype prior to your network application. They tell you they have a few very cool offers in mind, send you the application link themselves and even brief their application review team about the discussion they had with you(that was yesterday). Only to receive a negative to the application request today...
OK now that is all said…
I got disappointed because I allowed them to mess with my expectations...
There still is light at the and of the Chicken... I mean Tunnel…
Keep trying, in the end there is a match out there somewhere!
Luckily I am talking to yet another AM that is looking helpful for now…
So I hope to be able to have any offer selected soon (or is that wishful thinking?)
To be continued, hopefully in a new follow along thread...

 

[Graybeard]

me: Well, I WAS going to use your network's offer for a contest on Affiliatefix.com's board and you and your network would get free publicity. I guess I'll have to work with some alternatives --have a good day!

 

[wes888]

I feel you man, as a newbie, you have to go through rejections upon rejections especially if you have nothing to show. I think it is part of the process. Sometimes it feels hard to send those applications thinking will they reject me again? I got rejected by Maxbounty but I was lucky to get accepted to Peerfly during those times. I started there and slowly I was able to get accepted to a few more networks. Once you get in to a few networks and have some stats to show, it gets easier.

My suggestion is to go newbie friendly networks. After Peerfly, I applied to Mobidea and was accepted. I think they auto approve applications during the early days. Not sure now.

 

[GriD]

@Graybeard, Exactly that ! I selected the networks here on the forum... I mentioned the the contest in my first contacts with them here on the forum in a personal conversation... So their rep here on the forum is aware of that fact... They don't seem to care enough to brief the AM that this could be free publicity, or their AM does not care about the network publicity... But whatever, it is indeed their choice to mess up...

@wes888 Thanks man, appreciated! I know it's not easy, I have no issues with networks rejecting my application, I understand they have many applications and need to make a selection. I do have issues with the ones giving false hopes (what happened yesterday) and the ones that accept you just to appoint you an AM that probably is managing way too many of us so can't do his job correctly...

Again guys, I was the one that allowed someone else to mess with my expectations, resulting in disappointment and my rant here... I elaborated the rant into a bigger post as this is good for newbies to read. You can study and learn lots of things through experience. I do believe a good relation with your AM is extremely important in this business, and so far none has been able to prove worthy of my trust, some have convinced me of the opposite showing their non-respect. This is a double edged blade, there are plenty of us but we also have a choice of networks...

 

[T J Tutor]

Todays Rant... Newbies need to read this!

I've made this a sticky!

I hope that not only Newbies take the time to study this thread, but that we get some of the network reps here to study this. Honest Noobs need guidance and mistreatment is not something to be ignored by the networks IMHO. Sure there are loads of new marketers just looking to scam, but there are loads of honest Noobs with no ill intent needing the attention of their AM's so they can successfully build their new businesses.

 

[iamb]

Again guys, I was the one that allowed someone else to mess with my expectations, resulting in disappointment and my rant here... I elaborated the rant into a bigger post as this is good for newbies to read. You can study and learn lots of things through experience...

Did they bother to explain why your application was rejected or was is just a generic "not a good fit" type of answer?

I think knowing why you were not accepted in the first place could help you refine your application process in order to increase your chances of being successful with other networks.

Keep pushing. You are only 1 network and 1 campaign away from a breakthrough.

 

[GriD]

Did they bother to explain why your application was rejected or was is just a generic "not a good fit" type of answer?

Generic message, no reason...

Keep pushing. You are only 1 network and 1 campaign away from a breakthrough.

YES !!!!!

 

[williamrs]

@GriD

I certainly understand your point of view and respect your opinion 100%.

However, I don't agree 100%.

I agree that many affiliate managers could do a (way) better job supporting affiliates (of all levels, not only beginners). I also agree that most CPA networks have many flaws and could be better companies.

But does it change if we talk about other types of companies? Mobile carriers, streaming services, paid softwares, hardware manufacturers, etc... I could list many companies/brands in those areas and provide a countless number of reasons why I was very dissatisfied with the services they provided to me in the past.

And we don't even need to go that broad... within the internet marketing space there are many ad platforms (including big players such as Facebook and Google), tools (page builders, trackers, etc) and service providers (hosting, writing, designing, etc) that have an extensive list of complains.

My point: professionals and companies not always meet their customers' and partners' expectations.

Now, the part of your rant I respectfully disagree with: ranting about it.

When you say "...I allowed them to mess with my expectations..." that's the problem.

There's no point in creating any expectations with affiliate networks or affiliate managers. They can be decent, bad, good, horrible... Doesn't matter.

No matter how good they are, you won't be able to transfer even 1% of the responsibility of your results to them.

The journey is: you learn how to select offers, you learn how to promote those offers, you make your business profitable and you choose who you want to work with.

Has a network approved you and then provided no further assistance? Great, you've been approved and have more offers to promote! They have no obligation to provide further assistance, just like you have no obligation to work with them if you think their offers or services are poor.

Does a network suck? Work with another one.

Affiliate managers just want to know about numbers? Give them numbers. There are millions of fly-by-night affiliates out there joining CPA networks and demanding time from the affiliate managers without providing anything in return. Being super attentive to them would be generous, but financially impracticable. That's the same reason why Facebook won't look deep into an account or campaign before banning an advertiser with a $50 ad spend history. There's the other side of the coin... they have the same right to expect results from you that you have to expect assistance from them.

I do believe that, sometimes, affiliate managers can provide useful insights that help affiliates make more money. But I don't believe an affiliate manager can (or even have any obligation to) take an affiliate who's making nothing with the network to generating consistent commissions.

If you know how to do it, you can do it without their help. And they know it. So, if you're asking for help with zero results to show, it's impossible to demand great responsiveness or even a certain level of assistance.

That said, I want to make it clear that I believe that people come first and money comes second.

I think that helping beginners is very important. Anyone who's successful today needed help in the past.

If I hadn't received help from very generous marketers in the beginning of my internet marketing career, perhaps I'd be still editing marriage footages for $2/hour (it was Brazil in 2008, but that was still pretty low).

The more successful people and businesses in the affiliate marketing industry, the biggest the industry will be... and the more all of us will profit.

But in the way I see it (and, again, it's just my opinion, which may be wrong, so I respect yours 100%), ranting for not getting what we consider to be the help we deserve is not the way to go.

This is a way to transfer responsibility. And we may be faded to failure if the other party doesn't take it.

My suggestion is: don't create expectations and don't worry about what you can't control. Focus on what you can control, because you can control enough to make your business more successful.

All the problems you mentioned are indeed there. You and I can rant about them and we will be right. Problem is they won't change.

Ultimately, it's just about how we conduct our own businesses in an imperfect environment.

P.S.: None of the above is personal or a criticism to the OP or anyone who's related to his "rant". It's just my opinion and the only reason why I'm sharing it is for believing that it may be helpful to others. If you don't like what I've expressed or feel bad in any way about it, please, accept my apologies. I understand that not all my points may be correct and I'm always open to different opinions and learning new things.

 

[Honeybadger]

@GriD

Genuinely
I really enjoy reading your posts
You share alot of useful info
Your likes-to-posts ratio suggest others agree
Really hope you stay the course and succeed
@iamb is right, your 1st green campaign is coming

Keep pushing. You are only 1 network and 1 campaign away from a breakthrough.

Affiliate Marketing Reps

AM reps have a difficult job weeding through all the crap (is "crap" a banned word? Guess we'll find out)
Probably 95% of all affiliate applications return almost nothing, since around 95% of affiliate quit
I can imagine 95% are just starter accounts with no/low commission and no/low clicks
So it's the 5% they need to focus on
Numbers count like @williamrs says

Also don't focus too much on what you can't do
Your AM needs to see numbers and sales
Focus on helping people and getting traffic
Start by getting impressions, clicks will follow, then eventually sales
Success is the logical conclusion to persistence

I do believe a good relation with your AM is extremely important in this business, and so far none has been able to prove worthy of my trust, some have convinced me of the opposite showing their non-respect.

Please, please heed @T J Tutor's advice about treating it as a business
You are an business professional, do you have a plan for your business?
My business plan is the corner stone of everything I have achieved
Granted it's a work in progress but it's my map through unknown waters
Stick to your plan and let others drift where they may

so they can successfully build their new businesses

Get some numbers under your belt
My reps on 4 main networks are far more engaging and proactive with my emails now
But that took 8 months and over $240,000 in product sales ($13,000 commission)
Even now when sales are significantly lower than Christmas the realtionships are good
At the start the reps were politely curt

Affiliate Education

I have noticed even in past 8 months since joining this industry that affiliate education is improving
There are more and more high quality tutorial and advertorial videos for affiliates
There seems to be a growing competition around affiliate education, and that's a good thing
But more can and should be done to help new affiliates learn the ropes
However, there is more than enough on You Tube to get you earning

.. for everything else there is a community of 100,000 members on Affiliate Fix !!

 

[GriD]

@williamrs Thanks for your feedback, you seem to be a legend in the business so I really appreciate your extensive reply! (and don't agree 100% either but that makes us humans...)

I love this thread... Did I really start this?

I was somewhat upset when writing the first post... This does not happen to me often but I feel it was the right state of mind to write it... Ad as a marketer it looks like my catchy headline made some heads turn...

You read carefully what I wrote, indeed the 'rant' is truly about myself! "...I allowed them to mess with my expectations..." Sometimes it's a good thing to be reminded...

@GriDBut in the way I see it (and, again, it's just my opinion, which may be wrong, so I respect yours 100%), ranting for not getting what we consider to be the help we deserve is not the way to go.

It feels like I have not been able to pass on the reason of my being upset... I did mention a few things I ran into prior to mentioning what put me in that state of mind... To clear things out, I was upset for not getting something that was promised... I will not disclose any details to what was discussed as this might leave clues to identifying the network and I did not and do not see a reason to do such a thing. We still work with human beings that can make mistakes. (and acknowledge them as such)

The whole post was just created to warn other newbies with ZERO experience that it is hard to be heard. To make them understand it is not en easy path to walk. I read so many times that it's like a walk in the park...

Thinking this won't change anything is not the right mindset... I just needed to throw off some of my frustrations and decided to write them down... Besides ranting we can act upon the situation... I am surprised nobody suggested I talk to the network about what happened... Initiative I did take, I notified my initial network contact here on the forum (obviously with more details) of the situation that made me react the way I did. Never forget a complaining is customer is exactly that... It still is a customer and his complaints give the service provider (whoever that is) an opportunity to make things right! The reaction I got was an acknowledgement and a sincere apology! (again I will omit details here) So yes it sometimes pays to raise your voice, I have really been impressed by their reaction, the person that made the mistake, acknowledged it and apologised has gained my respect! Were the odds against me? Off course they were... Did this stop me from trying? Hell no... Did it pay? Yes it did... Will I work with them in the (near) future? Only time will tell but a least things are set straight!

@GriDAffiliate managers just want to know about numbers? Give them numbers.

In my opinion it is terrible advice to to say 'give them numbers'... This is an advice I have heard and read many times before. (hell there are even templates out in the wild...) I am sorry but I will not apologise for being an honest person. I do not have any numbers so I refuse to make them up... How can I convinced an AM will not notice I am a zero level rookie when I start my first campaign? How will he treat me once he notices? Just in a way I deserve to be treated... If this sincerity is not appreciated then so be it... I refuse starting a cooperation with an outright lie. Does that make me naïve? I guess so but I'm proud to be...

@GriDHas a network approved you and then provided no further assistance? Great, you've been approved and have more offers to promote! They have no obligation to provide further assistance, just like you have no obligation to work with them if you think their offers or services are poor.

This is so true but you make assumptions, this is human but don't let me mess with your perception...
You don't know how I approached them, but they indeed have no obligation to react. Nobody does... @Honeybadger is completely right, "AM reps have a difficult job weeding through all the crap" In the starters that subscribe they only have a very low% that will actually get somewhere in this jungle. I understand that, and the reason for me to request access to a network is that I have talked to them prior to the application to gauge if it could be a possible match...
Some networks responded negatively, different reasons were mentioned but I can live with that.
But I have less understanding for the networks that are probably overloading their AM's making them ignore my (and probably many other) requests. Since when is a 'no' not an answer? Not replying is a lack of respect, something which I have not displayed towards them... Those networks are now unfortunately on my blacklist as I can't differentiate between the AM and the network as the AM is the network's representative... The irony is that these networks leave me no choice but to be part of their 95%...

@Honeybadger, thank you for your appreciation, I'm always happy to see the bell pop up when someone likes one of my posts.

And I must say I feel this thread really made some minds crunch, I guess the sometimes very extensive responses only prove I took up a brick that was not to be left untouched...

Also I don't get your point when you reply when you state

@GriD
Please, please heed @T J Tutor's advice about treating it as a business

when I mention respect... Call me old school but I have been in local business for a very long time. Believe me no cooperation lasts if there is no respect...

I absolutely agree with @Graybeard when he states

If you are not up for a good faith test --I have learned to just walk away.

And the best quote of the day goes to :

@GriD
.. for everything else there is a community of 100,000 members on Affiliate Fix !!

How could we disagree?!

 

[Graybeard]

Turn the tables: Why should I spend my time and money selling your unproven offer?
If you are not up for a good faith test --I have learned to just walk away.
I have had some ad networks offer to refund the unused balance if their network traffic is unacceptable however.

What I am saying: is I have to be confident that I am not just assuming risk and wasting time too

 

[williamrs]

@GriD

I certainly understand your points. Just want to clarify something...

In my opinion it is terrible advice to to say 'give them numbers'... This is an advice I have heard and read many times before. (hell there are even templates out in the wild...) I am sorry but I will not apologise for being an honest person. I do not have any numbers so I refuse to make them up... How can I convinced an AM will not notice I am a zero level rookie when I start my first campaign? How will he treat me once he notices? Just in a way I deserve to be treated... If this sincerity is not appreciated then so be it... I refuse starting a cooperation with an outright lie. Does that make me naïve? I guess so but I'm proud to be...

I believe I was not clear in my previous reply when I said "Give them numbers".

I didn't mean to say "give them fake numbers".

What I meant is that if you start running campaigns with the offers you already have access to and start generating conversions, you'll be giving them numbers and showing them you're worth more attention.

Sorry for this, I totally agree with you that faking numbers would not only be unethical, but silly as you wouldn't be able to have a similar performance once accepted.

P.S.: Thanks for the legend thing! But my story isn't different than most people's, it also started with big struggles... but after 12 years doing it, one does learn some important lessons.

 

[azgold]

I could feel your frustration in your rant, @GriD . Being ignored by an AM isn't all that uncommon, have had it happen myself in the beginning. Customer service in general isn't anywhere near what I remember it being 'back in the old days'. On the rare occasion that I find a company, online or offline that offers good service, I stick with them.

We had a member who was starting a new network and started a thread to ask what affiliates look for in an AM. Responsiveness was one of the frequent answers. So, I think your rant is worthwhile, both for you to let off stream and as a cautionary tale for newbies. They'll know it happens to others and to not get too upset when it happens.

So, deep breath and onward. You're gonna do this, with or without their help.

We used to advise members to ask their AMs for offer recommendations but maybe....just maybe....you don't need them....

In case you might find this helpful for choosing offers, here's something @MaxBountyJoe posted earlier this month: MaxBounty's Tips for Choosing Affiliate Campaigns as a Beginner

I have not tried the tips but I have no reason to doubt MaxBounty's expert knowledge on the subject and it could be your stepping stone to independent offer selection.

This little bump in the road is just a learning opportunity in disguise. If you need any help or moral support along the way, you know where to find us.

 

[GriD]

I could feel your frustration in your rant, @GriD . Being ignored by an AM isn't all that uncommon, have had it happen myself in the beginning. Customer service in general isn't anywhere near what I remember it being 'back in the old days'. On the rare occasion that I find a company, online or offline that offers good service, I stick with them.
So, I think your rant is worthwhile, both for you to let off stream and as a cautionary tale for newbies. They'll know it happens to others and to not get too upset when it happens.

That was the exact reason of my post

So, deep breath and onward. You're gonna do this, with or without their help.
We used to advise members to ask their AMs for offer recommendations but maybe....just maybe....you don't need them....
This little bump in the road is just a learning opportunity in disguise. If you need any help or moral support along the way, you know where to find us.

Yes off course I can do this, it's just a matter of keeping focus and learning from the numbers... Money spent is money invested, not money lost ... (unless off course I burn through my complete testing budget before 'graduating' but even then there will be the 'free traffic' option)
As for the recommendation we need to talk to our AM's... Although it seems very important to me, I feel you are right... I did start promoting an offer which supposedly converts well (according to the AM) so it should be an 'easy' one to get some initial conversions going... I am however extremely far from these numbers (could be due to so many reasons and I am sure the main ones are my doing do I'm not pointing fingers at anybody but myself), hardly getting any conversion... So the selection of the first offers to be marketed might indeed not be left to whatever an AM suggests...
Oh yes these are all learning opportunities and yes I know where to find you, I love you guys!

 

[Busida]

That is totally true that this way is full of obstacles which need to be overcome. Nothing is too easy, every income needs some work.

 

[jhopkins77]

Apologies for this Quick rant here but I want to release some steam and I especially want other newbies to understand what they are up against, don’t take anything personal, this is business …
As yet another Affiliate network lost me a day…
I wonder if I even will be able to start another follow along this month lol.
The fights a newbie has to go through are many... Currently I am even struggling seeking out the tools...
Traffic source is chosen... Push...
Tracker is chosen... BeMob...
Vertical any of the lower budget (SOI etc.) ones...
Getting to talk to an AM that takes you serious is a game at the next level…
It seems like they just want to see numbers.. They're giving me a chicken and egg complex…
As I feel it is the AM I can not hold the network itself accountable and who am I to complain to the network about anything? (again the chicken and the egg…)
Some throw a series of offers at you, even some pre-approved…
Ask them anything about the offers, even simple stuff (like an example creative, landing page, statistics, ...) and they don't even take the time to answer, not even negatively (and being ignored by someone is a clear message to me, why did this network accept my application in the first place?)…
Some respond vaguely when asked if a specific offer suits a specific traffic source just saying 'yes that offer could be an idea, but you also might look at sweepstakes and dating'… (= they don't take time to read your question)
As if giving advice or looking up what you asked is too much trouble…
The reason for my rant today...
I hardly ever let my feelings mix with business but this one managed to give me false hope… Another AM chats with you a whole day on skype prior to your network application. They tell you they have a few very cool offers in mind, send you the application link themselves and even brief their application review team about the discussion they had with you(that was yesterday). Only to receive a negative to the application request today...
OK now that is all said…
I got disappointed because I allowed them to mess with my expectations...
There still is light at the and of the Chicken... I mean Tunnel…
Keep trying, in the end there is a match out there somewhere!
Luckily I am talking to yet another AM that is looking helpful for now…
So I hope to be able to have any offer selected soon (or is that wishful thinking?)
To be continued, hopefully in a new follow along thread...

I know exactly what you are going through. Yes it is tough and yes it can be stressful when people flat out say no to your offer. You shouldn't let it get to you because if you allow it to, you probably will throw in the towel calling it quits. It happens to many people.

 

[Makingtheimpact]

I've been rejected too, without even being given a chance. It's a harsh world, unfair, but it is what it is. All I know to do is say "hrumph" and walk away. There are plenty of other opportunities out there and I don't need those who outright reject me. This is a good thread btw.

 

[Affiliaria]

I needed this! Been struggling with low confidence regarding my business lately

 

[Potato]

As a newbie I understand you. But in one affiliate program I have very pleasure AM

 

[Harshit_770]

Apologies for this Quick rant here but I want to release some steam and I especially want other newbies to understand what they are up against, don’t take anything personal, this is business …
As yet another Affiliate network lost me a day…
I wonder if I even will be able to start another follow along this month lol.
The fights a newbie has to go through are many... Currently I am even struggling seeking out the tools...
Traffic source is chosen... Push...
Tracker is chosen... BeMob...
Vertical any of the lower budget (SOI etc.) ones...
Getting to talk to an AM that takes you serious is a game at the next level…
It seems like they just want to see numbers.. They're giving me a chicken and egg complex…
As I feel it is the AM I can not hold the network itself accountable and who am I to complain to the network about anything? (again the chicken and the egg…)
Some throw a series of offers at you, even some pre-approved…
Ask them anything about the offers, even simple stuff (like an example creative, landing page, statistics, ...) and they don't even take the time to answer, not even negatively (and being ignored by someone is a clear message to me, why did this network accept my application in the first place?)…
Some respond vaguely when asked if a specific offer suits a specific traffic source just saying 'yes that offer could be an idea, but you also might look at sweepstakes and dating'… (= they don't take time to read your question)
As if giving advice or looking up what you asked is too much trouble…
The reason for my rant today...
I hardly ever let my feelings mix with business but this one managed to give me false hope… Another AM chats with you a whole day on skype prior to your network application. They tell you they have a few very cool offers in mind, send you the application link themselves and even brief their application review team about the discussion they had with you(that was yesterday). Only to receive a negative to the application request today...
OK now that is all said…
I got disappointed because I allowed them to mess with my expectations...
There still is light at the and of the Chicken... I mean Tunnel…
Keep trying, in the end there is a match out there somewhere!
Luckily I am talking to yet another AM that is looking helpful for now…
So I hope to be able to have any offer selected soon (or is that wishful thinking?)
To be continued, hopefully in a new follow along thread...

Didn't read it all , still feel your pain