Is it true that some affiliate networks don't pay their affiliate even if their traffic was legit and followed the rules, if it's true pls tell me what should I look for when picking a network and is affpaying.com a reliable source
Affiliate networks not paying
- Thread starter koligo2165
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Graybeard
Well-Known Member
I think most affiliate programs are secretive of their inner workings and not overtly accountable however most are basically honest.
One problem is on the slippage loss to affiliates related to tracking and attributing the converting party and crediting that person with the CPA payment.
As an example Affiliate 1 displays an ad and that ad results in the money target landing page being shown to a referral. Then that referral does not act and closes the page. However, the infamous 'return cookie' is set. That referred person deletes his cookies and data regularly, manually or with software (like browser settings).
One problem is on the slippage loss to affiliates related to tracking and attributing the converting party and crediting that person with the CPA payment.
As an example Affiliate 1 displays an ad and that ad results in the money target landing page being shown to a referral. Then that referral does not act and closes the page. However, the infamous 'return cookie' is set. That referred person deletes his cookies and data regularly, manually or with software (like browser settings).
- The same person returns to the domain he was initially referred to,
completes a purchase, there is no return cookie, no affiliate is paid.
This is just a form of slippage, it is a known occurrence, but it is not intentional cheating --it's just "shit happens." - The same person later sees another affiliate's ad (Affiliate 2), clicks through that ads funnel,
arrives at the same landing page again --but this time decides to make a purchase:- This time there is a return cookie present --Affiliate 1 gets the credit for the sale --Affiliate 1 showed the referral the offer first
1. Is that fair?- Affiliate 1 'planted the seed' that created sale later
- Affiliate 2 actually made the sale
- When only one gets paid the other claims a cheat ...
- This time there is NO return cookie present --Affiliate 2 gets the credit for the sale --Affiliate 2 made the sale --but he stood on Affiliate 1's shoulders to get the sale (possibly
- This time there is a return cookie present --Affiliate 1 gets the credit for the sale --Affiliate 1 showed the referral the offer first
- 3rd scenario referred returns, after seeing the offer twice with no cookies and no affiliates get paid when the referred makes a purchase.
So, as you can see this is not so simple. If an affiliate network is using a white-label of a cam or dating website the same type-in can occur if the site will accept public access.
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Zaryab Khattak
Active Member
Working for a network, here are the following things mentioned due to which networks don't pay!
1- The network don't own the product due to which, when the advertiser refuse to paying that have no option except to close the partnership
2- If they own the products, the case comes where the bad leads ratio exceed the limit of their "fraudulent leads ratio", it varies company to company.
Some of the company's don't even leave a single bad lead and block the source.
Some have a bit increased ratio, where they wait until the red light hits and block the source.
Regarding Affpaying.com:
It is a great platform where you can get reviews about networks which can help you decide, which network to work with and which to not work with.
Now talking about us:
I, Zaryab, A Senior Affiliate Manager with Evander Affiliates
What we do, Is push an affiliate/publisher on our owned and operated inhouse offers, keep an eye on the progress of the affiliate/publisher time to time and update him to update filters, what area to target, help in creating better previews for better CR ratio.
We have "fraud detection system" on our inhouse offers which helps us prevent causing large amount damage, we don't suspend the affiliate immediately but ask them for the details about their traffic and if the suspicious activity is confirmed.
We ask them to stop the traffic immediately. We also warn them for such activity, ask push unique traffic with restriction added.
If we get any miss or suspicious lead again, then and only is when we tend to block it right away.
You can reach out to me for further details about us:
Skype: live:.cid.f59c3c1b15eb9236
Email: zaryab@evanderaffiliates.com
Or you can do a direct signup on our system "Click here to join" and can get access to our affiliate platform.
Best:
Zaryab Khattak
Evander Affiliates
1- The network don't own the product due to which, when the advertiser refuse to paying that have no option except to close the partnership
2- If they own the products, the case comes where the bad leads ratio exceed the limit of their "fraudulent leads ratio", it varies company to company.
Some of the company's don't even leave a single bad lead and block the source.
Some have a bit increased ratio, where they wait until the red light hits and block the source.
Regarding Affpaying.com:
It is a great platform where you can get reviews about networks which can help you decide, which network to work with and which to not work with.
Now talking about us:
I, Zaryab, A Senior Affiliate Manager with Evander Affiliates
What we do, Is push an affiliate/publisher on our owned and operated inhouse offers, keep an eye on the progress of the affiliate/publisher time to time and update him to update filters, what area to target, help in creating better previews for better CR ratio.
We have "fraud detection system" on our inhouse offers which helps us prevent causing large amount damage, we don't suspend the affiliate immediately but ask them for the details about their traffic and if the suspicious activity is confirmed.
We ask them to stop the traffic immediately. We also warn them for such activity, ask push unique traffic with restriction added.
If we get any miss or suspicious lead again, then and only is when we tend to block it right away.
You can reach out to me for further details about us:
Skype: live:.cid.f59c3c1b15eb9236
Email: zaryab@evanderaffiliates.com
Or you can do a direct signup on our system "Click here to join" and can get access to our affiliate platform.
Best:
Zaryab Khattak
Evander Affiliates
Zaryab Khattak
Active Member
can you share an example for understanding!
It would help us a lot to understand further.
Graybeard
Well-Known Member
You are operating on a pass through agreement like all networks do in scenario 1. If the advertiser under-performs --get rid if the advertiser. There are normal metrics ranges in this business. You, as a network have everything to lose, by continuing your relationship with an under-performing advertiser ... just replace the offer when you suspect your 'partner'.
In scenario 2 --you as a network own the product --don't think so much like a policeman. You must deal with fraud in any business, you are not special in that respect at all, the persecution complex is ludicrous. If you are marketing products like dating, cams, nutra, gambling you are going to attract a lot of smash-and-grab affiliates that will try to game your program --that is just part of the business and not worth making an issue out of --just deal with it.
Unique IP sorted traffic may mean little in fraud mitigation today. Fraudsters are using Selenium/Headless Chrome bots with fake User-Agent srtings along with rotating residential IP proxies now. You need to employ better detection on your network's redirects and landing pages --and that is very difficult now.
PaidPoints
Well-Known Member
Affiliate networks always pay their affiliates as far as I can tell. Affiliate networks are not the ones in charge of payment at all times, it could be that the advertiser, didn't approve of your promotion or traffic, and the affiliate network didn't have a choice either. But as far as I can tell from experience, affiliate networks do pay their affiliates always. Usually the complaints come from people who didn't follow the rules or didn't use legit traffic, but wouldn't like to admit that.
Zaryab Khattak
Active Member
Gottcha buddy, thanks for the helpHire a consultant or search those terms
- selenium
- headless chrome
- webdriver
- "residential proxy"
headless and selenium will execute JavaScript and complete captcha too.
I am pretty sure that headless and selenium can forge footprint values and can delay action and scroll also.
Here is an interesting work around in python with selenium.
How to Bypass Selenium Detection using Python - CodeSpeedy
Hello programmers, in this tutorial, we will see how to bypass selenium detection in websites using Python.www.codespeedy.com
For every move there seems to be a counter-move ...
You can catch them as well as low quality traffic by obsoleted browser versions --but only the lazy ones that don't keep the headers they are sending up to date.
You used to be able to detect fraud with a question prompt before the accessed content.
They have to be very narrow questions to only have one correct answer.
- What color is water?
- What color is grass that is growing?
- What is the sum of 5+2?
But today or in the near future the bots will spawn a new browser to access an AI for the correct answer (most of the time) or an advanced program will access an api then pipe the correct answer into the bot browser in milliseconds --the response time may seem human-like.
I have a friend who worked for Adtrafico, he was promoting an adult SOI offer his AM told him that the offer has a KPI of 60%
of the traffic must be +35 of age and so it was
the company pays on a weekly basis when comes the payday they put him on hold when he asked why no one answered him after 7 days he received an email saying that the advertiser didn't like his traffic, so his is not going to pay for it, he thinks It's because out of the 200 leads he generated only 3 upgraded to a paid membership
how often do networks or advertisers do this or did he participate is some kind of fraud, and he doesn't want to tell me about it
what is considered as good quality traffic, let say for example you generated 300 leads to a SOI dating offer KPI is 50% of the traffic must be +25 and the leads met the requirement but only 5 to 10 upgraded to a paid membership will you not get paid, or the advertiser is going to ask to stop sending traffic because not to many people are upgrading to a paid membership
another thing troubles me is what if the network or the advertiser go out of business do they pay their publishers or not
here is someone claims that peerfly didn't pay him 15k
An Overdue Update on My Affiliate Marketing Campaigns
TylerCruz.com: An Internet Entrepreneur's Journey - The journal of a young web entrepreneur on his journey to wealth.
www.tylercruz.com
Graybeard
Well-Known Member
Hire a consultant or search those terms
headless and selenium will execute JavaScript and complete captcha too.
I am pretty sure that headless and selenium can forge footprint values and can delay action and scroll also.
Here is an interesting work around in python with selenium.
www.codespeedy.com
For every move there seems to be a counter-move ...
You can catch them as well as low quality traffic by obsoleted browser versions --but only the lazy ones that don't keep the headers they are sending up to date.
You used to be able to detect fraud with a question prompt before the accessed content.
But today or in the near future the bots will spawn a new browser to access an AI for the correct answer (most of the time) or an advanced program will access an api then pipe the correct answer into the bot browser in milliseconds --the response time may seem human-like.
- selenium
- headless chrome
- webdriver
- "residential proxy"
headless and selenium will execute JavaScript and complete captcha too.
I am pretty sure that headless and selenium can forge footprint values and can delay action and scroll also.
Here is an interesting work around in python with selenium.
How to Bypass Selenium Detection using Python - CodeSpeedy
Hello programmers, in this tutorial, we will see how to bypass selenium detection in websites using Python.
www.codespeedy.com
For every move there seems to be a counter-move ...
You can catch them as well as low quality traffic by obsoleted browser versions --but only the lazy ones that don't keep the headers they are sending up to date.
You used to be able to detect fraud with a question prompt before the accessed content.
- What color is water?
- What color is grass that is growing?
- What is the sum of 5+2?
But today or in the near future the bots will spawn a new browser to access an AI for the correct answer (most of the time) or an advanced program will access an api then pipe the correct answer into the bot browser in milliseconds --the response time may seem human-like.
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Zaryab Khattak
Active Member
As we don't work in this niches, so i don't any idea about how what adult dating advertiser actually look for!
The industry i work for, i can share some reason from which you can get idea how do we block sources!
If the traffic pushed on our offers do not accept for the offer and refuse that he applied for the product, this is considered as fraud as the consumer has confirmed that he didn't even know why he was reached out.
If the traffic is unique as you mentioned then getting lower amount of paid partners doesn't matter as the other user somehow are benefiting the advertiser!
Graybeard
Well-Known Member
In that case, if the "offer owner's" claims are not true; the network either accepts it, dumps the advertiser if this occurs too often or when there is much suspicion. The only way you will see the books, and not possibly falsified, is if you sue the offending party, and the court allows you to subpoena the accounting data, then the data is subpoenaed under penalty of perjury (a criminal offense), don't forget you have to gain the court's jurisdiction over that party first. If the dispute is less than $400K and extra-jurisdictional to you --you are just throwing good money after bad. These are the realities of the situation.
- I know enough coding to run a shave on you that you would not most likely be able to detect, only possibly suspect.
- I also know ways to burn anyone running a shave on me.
I think that would be real dumb and a way to get a bad reputation as a program or as a network. This business functions on trust with no audit trail right now --that is the problem.
I would like to get paid for the traffic I sent to the advertiser, but it sucks getting kicked out from an offer that I just optimized my campaign for
from your experience, same example that I gave, how many of those leads have to convert to paying users, so I can keep promoting it
Unfortunately you are not alone, I read multiple complaints about this
some people even got banned for bot clicks
here is a scenario to work with
started a TikTok campaign promoting a sweep offer after a while got banded because of bot clicks of course TikTok bots are all over but what does that have to do with me, you are not paying me for clicks you are paying me for leads, or I'm a missing something
as for your situation, are you sure they were valid clicks what tracker were you using, I heard that sometimes your competitors send bot clicks just so that can burn your budget or the ad network did it, so they can charge you more I can neither deny nor confirm that it just something I read online
Hi, you can try working with our network, we always pay well for good traffic
Graybeard
Well-Known Member
200*$3 /PPL = $600
Median Customer Acquisition's lifetime value is? If it's a losing deal with no provable fraud --pay the man off and terminate him.
Other side: Where was the traffic from and what did it cost the affiliate?
I stay away from deals like these for the example you give. For all I know; assuming the traffic was legitimate; how can I audit the actual sales --I can not --just guestimate from known and proven past metrics.
Example (from May, 2022): I sent a well established adult webcam platform 1066 push referrals, that were filtered as 'authentic' from an ad network (one that advertises here). Of the 1066 clicks I redirected out (yes I count each click out) from my servers, the numbers there are real (true), the cam site only counted 640 of them. No explanation, just evasive arguments from that cam platform. I offered to provide every IP used by the referrals.
Conclusion I lost $140 in ad expense and hours of my time, (that is worth a lot more than $140 ffs), to find out it was all BS. To this day I really cannot fix blame; for absolutely no postbacks for any free signups nor a single purchase, the minimum was 10 euros.
Bad platform policies --there was no free preview cams however you could see the profiles and some selected images.
The site has existed in Germany for over 10 years and is well known.
The platform only cost 10 euros to play --low starting buy in.
Of even of the 640 they say they got; based on past performance metrics (not my first rodeo
) there should have been 2 or 3 sign-ups, forget sales, just interested enough to sign-up free ffs.I checked many of the IP's hostnames the vast majority were residential IP in Germany. I checked a representative group of these IPs against a known proxy database =0 they were clean (supposedly).
I want my time back --screw the (small testing) ad expense loss --nothing I can do there but move on ...
Md. Masudul Hasan
Member
Before join any affiliate program: please check the reviews on Google.com. If anybody have bad experience about any affiliate program: they share it on website and Google loves to show that.
adda_da
Member
Maybe some affiliate networks do this but It also depends on your traffic quality. I personally don’t find it lucrative for them to be unfair to anyone, I think it's rather something about their policy. In my case, I’ve been working for years with networks like popads, popcash, exoclick, propellerads, mondiad, mgid and I had no such issues.
Graybeard
Well-Known Member
Adult webcams (dating is?);
- all traffic quality, all sources, in house ads + type-ins (well established site)+ 5000+ affiliates on the books (maybe 1,200 active);
- 2% signup, 1% buying credit packages.
- We had a large established customer base --overall?
- If 3% to 5% of free signups start to buy that's median, 10% if you have web (organic) traffic.
- Model referrals (scalping from other sites maybe 80% or 90%).
Traffic quality is really double-talk BS in as far as the true demographics.
People lie about their age on the internet ffs
People who are using dating site to cheat on their spouse are always single or divorced
Lets say a credit card validation is needed for a Free Sign-Up
- --that's good traffic they validated a credit card (or other payment method)
- --they have the ability to pay
- --money is on the wood.
That sort of 'lead', or free signup, from an affiliate will convert more than 15% of the time --then it is the platform's performance that determines the results. The platform (or the offer) is the real problem.
All the rest is weaseling out. Walk away and bear the loss. Learn from the experience.
What I have seen is the newest networks are largely those being reported as not paying. I had a discussion with some project JV's over the weekend. Not the first time this discussion has arisen. Most of what we generally conclude is the newer networks suffer from being grossly under capitalized from the outset resulting in cash shortages a year or two down the road. Wharton always drilled into us to require at least 36 months of operating capital when launching a biz and I just don't see that as much these days unless one has a VC or angel investor who will most certainly make that a requirement. Some insist on a five year stash.
Graybeard
Well-Known Member
It's a numbers game, my friend ....
Let the GEO be Tier 1
The network contracts with the offer owner at 5.00 CPL
The network keeps 20% and offers to you 4.00 on a pass through (meaning; they pay me --then I pay you)
61.2155/5 = 12.2431
1:12.2431 or 8.16%
- Say the median (that is not necessarily the average) dating member remains a member to 5.4 month and pays 29.99/month
5.4*29.99 = 161.94- let the revshare lifetime be 60% (example)
(5.4*29.99)*.60 - To make it worth the risk to the offer owner (mainly varying paid conversion rates)
Let the GEO be Tier 1
The network contracts with the offer owner at 5.00 CPL
The network keeps 20% and offers to you 4.00 on a pass through (meaning; they pay me --then I pay you)
61.2155/5 = 12.2431
1:12.2431 or 8.16%
Graybeard
Well-Known Member
I code my own trackers --been doing this work since 2001. Seen it all. I was involved in the management of affiliate programs.
What if I told you that most of the internet is faking it?
We spent over $1million a year on adwords back in the day --that fraud wasn't the problem. It was the high rollers spending on the cam girls/performers with stolen credit cards and the charge-backs --we were only allowed 1% charged back transactions (count) buck then..
All you have to do is check the affiliate network and be carefull with type of promotion which you used. Firstly, check the rules of offer which you choose. There are offers which are not allowed to specific type of promotion. For example one affiliate offer allows to promote intencive traffic, and second one are not. If all your activity will be permitted, you should not be worry about paying.
Graybeard
Well-Known Member
Did he ask for a list of the alleged bots and receive a list?
If you have IP and user-agents you do not want ffs show me who to filter.
This is what I asked exactly of that cam site experience I described. He just babbled bullshit about how great they were -- I told him we're done --no more time to waste and it not the money spent --it is my fkn time setting this up.
If the offer had any brains they would just filter those out with a bot trap and account for them.
If you count doesn't match mine --at least 85% --you are either shaving, have server or statistics programming issues.
If you are not redirecting any clicks and filtering out what bot and low quality traffic you can --then it is your fault. Why?
For reason that they known filterable junk traffic distorts your metrics and epc statistics. Up to 40% of internet traffic is bots (scraper and click bots) or obsolete devices or browser versions today.
Unfortunately, this is not uncommon on affpaying and other sites. My advice is to read more reviews about this or that affiliate network. You can also check the forums, ask questions in the threads of the networks or ask a question in the appropriate section. And I would like to say a few words about Bona Fides. I work with these guys for a long time and so far I like everything: they always help me with promo materials, they pay me on time and they have a lot of geo for work.
Unfortunately, it is not uncommon when affiliate does not pay its users, when choosing takes into account not only the reviews of specific sites but also people on the forum, better to study any question more determinately, when choosing traffic better use a network from myself I advise Trafficstars with them I have good results, tried free traffic but did not work out switched to them and the results immediately did not make themselves wait
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